Ranting - but a bit constructive.

Ranting - but a bit constructive.

Postby Black Light » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:28 am

Most of the time yesterday I spent getting killed, normally 20 seconds after I spawned due to spawn camping. Ok, so the fact I started as level 1 and ended as level 2 might have influenced the amount of dying. Also that I am trying to (most of the time) to play an engineer. It was fun for a while with five (three LLoD, two FIST) of us in Sunderer with Deathwish-Pob at the wheel, running around trying to get smallers sites and leaving. I suspect that a small group should never stay in one spot too long, once the enemies are spawning there (in any decent numbers) you should pull out, instead of giving them loads of kill xp.

It feel like the number of people you need to be useful is five or six or so, when you can take not just empty bases, but even ones with a bit of defence. It felt like huge improvement over three. Local superiority seem to be the key to this game. A fast moving team in a Galaxy or a Sunderer, then hit small and medium sites before a the defenders get to spawn in in numbers.

Ok, so what is the solution to the problem that there is too few of us on the ground? More people, i.e. we need to recruit both more people and more small Outfits. If we assume that people will be on half an evening, half of most evenings that there ain't an event, and that you need 8 people to be effective. That gives us that we need at least 32 people in our player base, and that is 32 people that can communicate. I know of the TS sites for LLoD and FIST. So for me it means I need 32 people in LLoD and FIST alone. We might have the numbers, I mean it is not like the other outfits (don't want to list and forget one) are empty, but if I can't communicate with them they might as well be. I guess the same problem occurs for the other outfits in TRA as well, if they want to play with us and can't find us. I suspect there was other TRA people online yesterday, but I didn't know how to contact them.

So either, we need a list of TS servers, or Mumble, or Ventrilo. An other option is one server for all, that is one server we all agree on, not one or more servers we are all welcome to, since we have that. Maybe create a "TRA" server that has no outfit attachments.

End of rant, and my opinions. Ok, so it's not the end of my opinions, but I will shut up now in any case.
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Re: Ranting - but a bit constructive.

Postby Avingord » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:48 am

First of all, it is not a rant and you have valid reasoning with what you say.

This has also already been discussed at the Alliance council meeting where communication was one of the topics. We all agreed on this in general principle.

Now back to reality, I have some questions on your number reasoning, but that is beside the point here ...

What we know in practice and from the (first) alliance is that you cannot force people to jump server, and neither do we want that. That leaves out a central TS server.
It is an offer that is on the table and stays open, however as said the alliance is also about outfit freedom so forcing people on a specific server is a "no go "from the start.

As time progresses we will get to know each other better (Dutch Rebellion seems to joining the alliance again also) we will (hopefully) start to work together more and more (also aside from the events - and some of us already do just that). In the meantime if you are in need of people I would suggest to check if your (other outfit) contacts are online and see if they want to join up.

As for the amount of people....

Well it all depends on what you want really. I have no problem with hit and run tactics when they do some good (even if it is drawing away enemies from an assault). Going for an all out grunt assault, well that is where the other outfits come in...
And if they are not available, well ask some of the "older" hands. LLOD has been known to do a lot will very few people; it is just a matter of thinking things thorugh on how to do them... If that fails then indeed see if you can hit another valuable target

Remember that a number of the older tactics are still in the realm of dreams as adv. hacking is still out etc... Once that is in life will definetly get much easier..
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Re: Ranting - but a bit constructive.

Postby Black Light » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:10 am

Ok, numbers. I think that five or six is the minimum for a squad to be efficient. Otherwise all you do is go around and capture undefended areas, and run away as soon as defences show up. You and I have probably very different opinions on this game, and what people can do in very few numbers due to different experiences, and different levels of experience. Unless I can feel I can make a difference, I don't have fun. In most squads below four (at least), I don't feel we do anything but run around and capture outlying areas which are promptly taken back, and since we are few we run instead of fight or we get over run. This is no fun, to feel that we are being chased away from everything we take. Capturing without holding ain't that fun to me, and we can't hold without numbers.

The reason I can't wait for thing to get better on their own is that unless I have fun in this game I might not be here in three months. I will go play world of tanks, and I will try and persuade people to join me so you might lose more people that just one. We do not need to hold indefinitely, but we do need to hold for a while for it to be fun (at least for me).

Either we get communication and recruiting up soon, or I think TRA is a lost cause at least for me. Then I would have much more fun joining a bigger outfit, that can field enough people to grab an outlying base and hold it until the TR get defenders in place.

So why don't I leave for a bigger outfit? Because I don't want to! I want this to work, but TRA isn't just old hands. It has a bunch of new people in it, and if all the officers can say is "We know what we can do, given it time and things will get sorted" some of those new people (maybe me) will lose faith in the TRA or the game and leave.

Edit: Last Line of Defence is the only guild I have ever belonged to if they have been represented in a game, so I have a slight suspicion that I would quit the game before I left LLoD which is why I really want this to work.
Last edited by Black Light on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ranting - but a bit constructive.

Postby Avingord » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:16 am

The reason I can't wait for thing to get better on their own is that unless I have fun in this game I might not be here in three months. I will go play world of tanks, and I will try and persuade people to join me so you might lose more people that just one. We do not need to hold indefinitely, but we do need to hold for a while for it to be fun (at least for me).


That is your prerogative.

Either we get communication and recruiting up soon, or I think TRA is a lost cause at least for me


I think you are confusing the TRA with LLOD here.
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Re: Ranting - but a bit constructive.

Postby Black Light » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:25 am

Avingord wrote:That is your prerogative.

"Leave if you want to" isn't really helping, Avi.

Avi wrote:I think you are confusing the TRA with LLOD here.

No, I don't give a rat's ass about if the people I play with are LLoD, FIST, Mordor, TRAF, INI Elite, Drake Flight or an other outfit I have missed. But unless I know they are online, I can't play with them. Hence communication and recruiting.
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Re: Ranting - but a bit constructive.

Postby HighwayStar » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:27 am

I'd really like to play some games with you all too, with a voice server. Yesterday I was lone wolfing and died alot.

All get on Avingords TS today and start capping some hexes?
---TRAF Flight Lieutenant HighwayStar---
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Re: Ranting - but a bit constructive.

Postby Avingord » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:30 am

. But unless I know they are online, I can't play with them


That is where a friends list is for and I know Letten regularly pops-in the TS channel.
Communication comes in many forms but is always as much your own initiative as anybody else's. Whining about I do not see enough people works rarely.

As for recruiting, you know my opinion about that ...
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Re: Ranting - but a bit constructive.

Postby Black Light » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:40 am

Avingord wrote:That is where a friends list is for and I know Letten regularly pops-in the TS channel.
Communication comes in many forms but is always as much your own initiative as anybody else's. Whining about I do not see enough people works rarely.

Whining about not seeing enough people? I went to the LLoD TS server, and went to the FIST TS server and looked. What else am I supposed to, I looked in all the places I knew about? I asked for a list of servers to look at in the original post, did you miss that part? I wanted more options, not to be told that I am a whiner for trying to improve the playing conditions for us all.

As for recruiting, you know my opinion about that ...

I am talking about recruiting to TRA outfits, as a group, not recruiting to LLoD.
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Re: Ranting - but a bit constructive.

Postby Avingord » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:47 am

I am talking about recruiting to TRA outfits, as a group, not recruiting to LLoD.


What other TRA outfits do for recruiting policy is their independent choice.

I wanted more options, not to be told that I am a whiner for trying to improve the playing conditions for us all.


The reason I can't wait for thing to get better on their own is that unless I have fun in this game I might not be here in three months. I will go play world of tanks, and I will try and persuade people to join me so you might lose more people that just one


Enough said, I will stop this discussion now.
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Re: Ranting - but a bit constructive.

Postby Black Light » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:11 am

The reason I can't wait for thing to get better on their own is that unless I have fun in this game I might not be here in three months. I will go play world of tanks, and I will try and persuade people to join me so you might lose more people that just one

Ok, this obviously was not taken as I meant it. Downside of forum conversations, misunderstandings has a tendency to build up. Avi seem to have seen this as a threat to leave, which was not how I meant it. I assume that other people who are new to PS2 are in the same position as me, and feel the same way. I also assume that they are in most outfits, only some people don't join forums, some people are afraid of conflicts and would not voice an opinion. I am certain that TRA can live on fine without me, even LLoD on PS2 can live on fine without me so it was not meant to be a threat. I wanted to point out that new comers to the game might need, I feel I do, bigger squads to feel efficient and have fun and since we don't have any connection to Planetside, this is just a game and you switch out games which are not fun.

Increasing the venues of communication, like a list of TS servers I can look for people on seemed like very simple way to improve the conditions for me and possibly other people.

I will shut up now, before this gets worse.
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